During yesterday's class, we analyzed an excerpt from Henry George's book, Poverty and Progress. The symbolism and reality of "liveried carriages" and "barefooted children" paints a vivid image of this era, the Gilded Age.
After the discussion of this source, as well as a discussion of what we know and want to know, I tried to unpack major themes and many of you wrote down questions.
Please dig out those questions from your notebooks and share them here. If you didn't keep track of questions during yesterday's class, read your classmates ideas and respond with your own thoughts about the connections between railroads, corporations, labor unions and government interventions. How did the rise of industry affect the distribution of wealth in late 19th century America?
"A Wedding of the Rails," Promontory Point, Utah, 1869
http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/promopoint.jpg
Carnegie Steel and the 1892 Battle of Homestead:
http://www.battleofhomesteadfoundation.org/images/A_view-of-mill.jpg
http://www.battleofhomesteadfoundation.org/battle.php
Use this space to share your questions from Thursday's class. Respond to each other's questions with your own thoughts about the period of Progress and Poverty.
ReplyDeleteA few of the questions that came to my mind, while reading the Zinn packet. Where:
ReplyDelete-Did the wealthy ever stop to think about the poor people, that had to work in factories for hours to keep their families alive? Or did they believe the world revolved around them?
-What were some ideas and customs immigrants brought to America? Did this change the American identity dramatically?
~Shirley-Ann Feliciano
Excellent questions Shirley-Ann.
DeleteNow is the right time to discuss the 1890 sale of Andrew Carnegie's Pittsburgh steel industry to J.P. Morgan for $480 million. After this point, Carnegie devoted his life and wealth to philanthropic causes. As the Columbia University Library website states, "Many persons of wealth have contributed to charity, but Carnegie was perhaps the first to state publicly that the rich have a moral obligation to give away their fortunes."
http://library.columbia.edu/indiv/rbml/units/carnegie/andrew.html
Another question to consider: Does the fact that Carnegie gave most of his fortune away balance the economic inequality that resulted from his business practices?
Here are some of the beliefs of Carnegie outline by the PBS: American Experience program.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegie/sfeature/p_sci.html
Here is an on-line link to Howard Zinn's chapter "Robber Barons and Rebels":
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnbaron11.html
Dear Ms. Blatteau,
DeleteLast class was very informative and exciting. During our lecture I was paying close attention as you were discussing how the rich is getting richer, as the poor is getting poorer. I understand this, but wonder why this is happening. It wasn't part of the reading but I remembered you explaining how the rich would do deceitful things to stay rich such as: Lying, Stealing and Cheating. If this was true why didn't anyone stop them? There had to have been someone more powerful or someone who was able to take control in this situation, right? Thank You, God Bless You.
Sincerely,
Brianña
The same thought can to mind while I was reading Zinn as well, It that the rich could care less about how brutal the work conditions were, they only worried about their wealth. Henry George wrote "The wealthy class I'd becoming more wealthy; but the poorer class is becoming more dependent. The gulf between the employed and the employer its growing wider; social contrast are becoming sharper; as liveried Carriages appear; so do barefooted children"This showed me how the wealthy carelessly thrown around and flaunted their money while everyone else was in poverty!
DeleteWhat I find interesting is that no one talks about the life and living conditions of farmers during this era. I know many of them relocated, but some must have been left, right? Someone had to have been producing food for the rest of the country.
ReplyDeleteI found that interesting too! And I was reading something (I forget what) but it said that the few farmers that were left to grow crops, were actually getting ripped off by the railroads. Railroads would basicially charge farmers whatever they wanted to transport their crops, which sometimes ended up being this high, corrupt rate. It was farmers who led movements to regulate railroad because they were the ones very deeply affected and were in debt! There was some type of farmers association called the "Grange" in 1867 which was similar to how labor unions protested unfair working conditions. As for living conditions of farmers, I'm not sure if they were poverty stricken but I know they were by far well off! I also wonder like what percentage of the nations population actually was farmers? Where were these farmers located and what did they sell? Hmmm.....
DeleteMy question from last class' lecture was "What role did education play in this time period?". I asked this because while Ms. Blatteau was giving her very informative lecture,she was describing how children at young ages also had to work in order to support their family and that these employees worked by "The Bell". Ms. Blatteau also said that schools educated children to work by the bell - that why we have bells now to switch classes; and that would train them for jobs in the factories etc.
ReplyDelete- What disabled poor people from gaining wealth? or what limited them from going from poor, to middle class and then potentially wealthy?
ReplyDelete- Compared to today, why was wealth so limited? Why were there only a few people considered to be wealthy?
The reason why most poor people did not progress or become wealthy was because their jobs barely paid enough to sustain their families at the time; so they were not able to save money to buy things that the wealthy got easily.
DeleteHope I answered your question!
~Shirley-Ann
I remember slightly what we were talking about in class. What I do remember was that we talked a lot about government and how it was oppressing these people of lower stature. My not so much question , but comment was that a government is a government. It is not neccesairly going to be our best friend , usually anywhere they are oppresive. That is slightly what they do. Although with everything there is a balance. They don't have to be that nice , but we have the voice that we have in order to tell them HEY ! stop being so oppresive we want this this and this.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I have to say about the industrial/gilded is that we had to go through it. It wasn't a good part of our history, but few things are. It's just that nothing in life is easy and the industrial age proved that , but it set up the foundations for positive progression that we still continue to build upon today.
I'm not saying these robber barons weren't wrong , but we need to understand then as well now that people do become rich and we cannot put the blame on these people we should take some blame too because if things really mattered to us , we would fight in every effective way possible ( not just protesting ). We have rights, we just need to be the ones to demand these rights be abdided by.
the people of the industrial age understood this and even though horrible circumstances had to happen , they still established standards for others to come.
Last class I found really interesting and I had a million ideas popping into my head. Some questions I had were:
ReplyDelete~Why was 1877 significant? What happened in that year? And when did Reconstruction officially end?
~How come flight isn't mentioned?? 1903 first powered flight!
~What was America's international relations at this point. Here we have boatloads of immigrants coming in but how did America feel about these other countries?
~I want to know more about the tycoons like Rockefeller, Carnegie - I feel like I know the lives of the poor people really well, and how they live in poverty and work under harsh conditions. However, I feel like the only thing I know about these tycoons is that they were rich...
~Did people at this time resent the government for being "in flint" with the corporations?
~What is social/reform Darwinism? Is it like Darwin's theory of evolution?
Well I can answer your first one there. The election of 1876 was a hotly contested Presidential election between the Democrat Samuel Tilden, I believe who was Governor of New York, and the Republican Ruthefurd B Hayes. At the end of the election, Tilden had about 51% of the popular vote to Hayes who had I believe about 49%. However, South Carolina, who still relied on the state legislature to allot electoral votes, was unsure who to cast their votes for. Hayes, who obviously wanted to win the election, promised South Carolina that if he was elected, he would pull all federal presence out of the South, effectively ending Reconstruction. South Carolina, the only state yet to cast its election deciding votes, was swayed by the promise and casted its votes for Hayes, and Hayes became the next President of the United States. Upon entering into office, he kept his promise to South Carolina and Reconstruction was effectively "ended" in 1877 which is why the year is significant.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHey Alyssa,
Delete"~What is social/reform Darwinism?"
well Alyssa you are kind of right it is based on darwins thery of evolution....
"its an idea that humans, like animals and plants, compete in a struggle for existence in which natural selection results in "survival of the fittest."
- This is the website I found for the info I posted there is also more info here: http://autocww.colorado.edu/~toldy2/E64ContentFiles/SociologyAndReform/SocialDarwinism.html
A question I had was “What happened to the Native Americans at the time?” “Where were they while all this was happening?” I know that people immigrated to the U.S. from numerous places around the world and worked in factories and places like that, but did the Native Americans work in the factories with the immigrants or were they doing something else?
ReplyDeleteAnother question I had is how the different “communities” looked at the time, since they were so diverse and different? Also how was the feel of these communities when you entered them?
Why do you think big business rose to power so fast?
ReplyDeleteHow do you think the problem with the distribution of wealth in the 1800s connects to the problem we have with it today?
What are commodities?
Well a commoditie is:
DeleteA raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold ex: copper or coffee. also known as: A useful or valuable thing
well i wasnt here last class , but after reading the opening , i thought abt how everyone was being affected in this time , the rich , the poor, the children , the employed and employer. and from the title of this opening " poverty and progress" , iwonder who was experiencing progress .. the rich or the poor
ReplyDeleteWhy has this country not changed much over the last couple of centuries?
ReplyDeleteThe wealthy still remain wealthy, and the impoverished still rely on owners of large corporations (the wealthy) for basic neccecities.
" Between 1860 and 1914, New York grew from 850,000 to 4 million, Chicago from 110,000 to 2 million, Philadelphia from 650,000 to 1 1/2 million."
ReplyDelete"Between the Civil War and 1900, steam and electricity replaced human muscle, iron replaced wood, and steel replaced iron (before the Bessemer process, iron was hardened into steel at the rate of 3 to 5 tons a day; now the same amount could be processed in 15 minutes). "
(http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnbaron11.html)
With populations growing and people being replaced with machinery/quicker more efficient processes, how were people even able to make money besides the Robber Barons? With this, people would probably be able to get by but not have a lot of money afterwards
My second question that has nothing to do with the lecture is, "We know that the north was progressing in technology and urbanizing, but what about the south?" I think I read something about the north giving up on reconstruction in the south, maybe maybe not.
ReplyDeleteOne question i have is what made Howard Zinn want to write all his work from a differnt point of view?
ReplyDeleteWell we all know American pride was at its highest peak in this gilded age but also how people look at America today has changed America today is a land of oppertunity for almost evrybody but at this point in time in history almost all immigrants had no real options except to become a labor intensive factory worker. Today we have the same thing as immigrants from where ever come to the US most of them start as factory workers but they are able to work their way up so I guess my question is what prohibited the lower class from steping up in the social ladder? was it more of a caste system like india? or was it because they needed/ wanted instant gradification of things they needed and wanted of what they bought.
ReplyDeleteMoral of what we have read is basically "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" (lyrics from a Santan song that just strike me evrytime we talk about this type of thing)
- Rebecca
I had many questions during the lecture last class about poverty and progress during this time. In our discussion there was a slight reference to Native Americans, however that was the extent of their role in our conversation. This then prompted me to ask these questions
ReplyDelete--Where exactly do Native Americans stand at this point? What are their views on all the corruption taking place? Are they being affected?
--Where do these events take place in relation to the development of Native American Reservations?
In addition, the corruption of industry during this time and the way that Rockefeller learned to work his way around the Antitrust Legislation made me think more deeply about the rights of a corporations.
--What has been the evolution of the rights of a corporation? How did we get to present day, where corporations have the same rights as people? How did the rights during this time compare to the ones of today?
Random Questions
--Define Socialism
--When exactly was the Gold Rush? 1919? Maybe...idk, it was referenced in the lecture and I just want to have a clear idea of when this took place.
Thanks for all your thoughts and ideas!
--Christine
Hey Christine,
DeleteThe Califonia gold rush wich I believe you are referencing was 1848–1855.
- Hope this helps
- Rebecca
one questin i have about what we taled about last class is what was given to the legislatures to be brybed out of not regulating the industry?
ReplyDeleteThroughout the whole reading I was wondering, yes you can keep everyone in the dark about the situation but, sooner or later people will find about the situation happening. I can’t imagine the entire middle class, being as gullible as they were. I Know organizations were made, like labor unions and the Americanization group happened, but if they formed as one, they could have had a bigger impact.
ReplyDeleteWhen i was reading a question that i had was why would these bosses of the factories would ever want to put their employees in such horrible conditions? I thought that if the emploers wanted their employees to work hard, they could have done something better to insure that their employees would get their jobs done and not make work feel like they were in jail.
ReplyDeleteWhy are Lewis and Clark mentioned under ecological impact of the railroad? All they did was explore the land years before railroads were set up there.
ReplyDeleteWhat are rebates and pools?
Hey Desiree,
DeleteA rebate is a Pay back (such a sum of money).
Pooling money occurs when you combine funds from two or more different entrepreneurs or private lenders
hope this helps...or this is what you were looking for!
-Where was the government at?
ReplyDeleteIt feels as if though they only supported the big businesses which I don't understand because the people were to rule what happened in their country. Also if i can recall the declaration of independance clearly states that they can overthrown a leader if they felt like there was no progress. Althought, techonology was increasy greatly it was a distraction to hide the poor's struggle and living styles.
-Did anyone see that?
-Did anybody live the life of a poor and rise up then protested at the fact that many wealthy men were selfish?
-Why didn't the government help the poor?
They were the masses and they have the power that those rich men had if they just got up and took action. Like the laborers, did like women did, like children did.
-Wasn't it an appaling view to see those children after work or to see them live in sections tetnth avenue in New York and knowing that because of one man greed millions are suffering?
It's crazy to know that the world was so messed up and dismantled in about 200 years ago.
~Jorgieliz :)
Education played a major role in the Gilded Age, what role did education play?
ReplyDeleteOne thing I learned and found interesting was all the innovation they had during that age. Technology, innovation, and the expansion of market was great for business and economic strategies.
Desiree
ReplyDeleteLouis & Clark probably gave them an idea to make a railroad that connects the land East to west and South to North. Who knows.
On thing that was on my mind last class is.... How did the westward movement effect the Native Americans?
ReplyDeleteGood question Jeremy!
DeleteI am not the one to answer that question but I am sure we will probly learn about it in the new unit we started today! (3/14/12)
- Rebecca